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fgiusepp
Scribe
Alliance: Narnia
Last Visited: 31 May 2010
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Posts: 162
Location: Narnia Italy
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Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2004 1:18 am |
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traslation an a good English
dear Friends
Thanks for the help , to traslate my bad English.
Now I have a more text to put in correct Enghlish ,
If some of you can help me ...... this is the text:
**************************
“Chronicles of Narnia”
Lewis take the name of Narni
Looking to an old latin map
Of Italy
***************************
by Giuseppe Fortunati
Premiss that the books “Chronicles of Narnia”, start from the Fancy of C.S. Lewis , some curiosity come from Italy and italian culture.
Realy Lewis know very in deaph the italian culture and his studies like professor at Oxford and Cambridge , take him to read and study the most famouse classic of the lecterature , and so Lewis know very well the old latin poets like : Livy, Tacitus Pliny the Elder and Pliny the Younger.
Jack, (like Lewis want to be call from his friends),
when was young and studies with the teacher Kirkpatrick,
love many the classic , so that Kirkpatrick tell to Jack's father : “Ha letto più
classici di qualunque altro ragazzo io abbia mai seguito...
e potrei aggiungere, di cui abbia mai sentito parlare”
and more “È uno scolaro che non ha altri interessi
se non la lettura e lo studio…”.
Lewis know very well latin , so that him can correctly read and write letters in the latin language.
An exemple was the correspondence in latin with don Calabria
(an italian priet) that start at 1947 till don Calabria's dead about 1954.
This correspondence in latin with don Calabria was traslate
in italian and now are a book named : “Una Gioia
Insolita”, by Luciano Squizzato preface by
Walter Hooper editions Joca Book 1995.
Jack read between 1910 and 1920 (when was about 12 to
22 years old ) many latin classic writers.
According to Paul Ford's Companion to Narnia:
Since Lewis's first successes at Oxford were in the classics and ancient history, it is quite possible that he came across at least seven references to Narnia in Latin literature.
"Four references are found in Livy's History (10:10, 27:9,27:50, and 29:15)... ... Tacitus's Annals (3:9).... Pliny the Elder's comment in Natural History about its unusual weather (it became drier in the rainy season).... Pliny the Younger's letter to his mother-in-law, in which he mentions the excellence of the accommodations of her villa at Narnia, especially its beautiful baths. Of all of these references, Lewis mentions only Pliny the Younger, in a letter to Arthur Greeves (They Stand Together, Macmillan, Collins, 1979, p. 171)."
So the name Narnia that Lewis give to the fantastic land in his books, was very well know by Jack that know an italian town named Narnia that was on the Flaminia road and are also the last defence
for Roma, for the peoples that comes from the Nord .
This question are more give value to one of the most famous
Lewis's biograph Walter Hooper, that said that now have the Italy map in wich Lewis studies and that Lewis undersore some name in this atlas , and NARNIA are one of this name.
And more Lewis underscore also the Flaminia road from Rome to the nord.
Others latin cities was: Ariminum , Perusia, Mevania, Otriculum. This map come from the "Murrey's Small Classical Atlas" (1904).
Like you can see at the picture.
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Solosimpe
At the Bird and the Baby
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Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2004 9:52 am |
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I might be able to give it a shot. Would you want to have it sent to your e-mail, or just posted here?
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Ddraigwen
1
Alliance: The Magic
Last Visited: 01 Nov 2005
Joined: 18 Jul 2004
Posts: 343
Location: Texas
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Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2004 9:58 am |
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I'll have a stab at it this weekend 
however, this section of the thread does not really belong here so I am going to attemp to split it and send the translation part of this thread over to Cair Paravel
Wish me luck!
EDIT: Well woohoo! it worked just as I wanted it too. We can carry on translating in here.
with fgiuseppe's permission we may even publish it on the main site once we've worked on it!
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Solosimpe
At the Bird and the Baby
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Location: I wonder as I wander....
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Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2004 10:11 am |
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OK, I had nothing to do, so I worked on it, and got a version with just a couple questions as to meanings etc. DO you want me to post it here?
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fgiusepp
Scribe
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Last Visited: 31 May 2010
Joined: 06 Oct 2004
Posts: 162
Location: Narnia Italy
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Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2004 10:17 am |
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Dear Friends
many thanks for help me
I think that we can share the informations
so you can replay to this forum the traslation modified
and if you like you can also put on the web
with the autor and the traslator name.
thanks
giuseppe
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Solosimpe
At the Bird and the Baby
Alliance: Narnia
Last Visited: 25 Aug 2010
Joined: 15 Sep 2004
Posts: 3151
Location: I wonder as I wander....
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Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2004 10:22 am |
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OK, here's what I did, I hope this helps. In a couple places I wasn't sure of your meaning so I put what I thought you meant, but with a question. Good luck!
**************************
“The Chronicles of Narnia”
Lewis has taken the name of Narni
after looking at an old Latin map
Of Italy.
***************************
by Giuseppe Fortunati
The premise is that the books “The Chronicles of Narnia”, started from the Fancy of C.S. Lewis, some parts curiously come from Italy and Italian culture.
Really, Lewis knew the Italian culture in much depth, and his studies as professor at Oxford and Cambridge allowed him to read and study the most famous classics of literature, and so Lewis know very well the old Latin poets like: Livy, Tacitus, Pliny the Elder and Pliny the Younger.
When Jack (as Lewis wanted to be called by his friends) was young,
and studied with his teacher Kirkpatrick, he loved the many classics, so that Kirkpatrick told Jack's father: “Ha letto più
classici di qualunque altro ragazzo io abbia mai seguito...
e potrei aggiungere, di cui abbia mai sentito parlare”
and more “È uno scolaro che non ha altri interessi
se non la lettura e lo studio…”. (I couldn't get this part, sorry)
Lewis knew Latin very well, so he could correctly read and write letters in the Latin language. An example was the correspondence in Latin with don Calabria (an Italian priest <-is this what you mean?) which started in 1947 till don Calabria's death in about 1954.
This correspondence in Latin with don Calabria was translated
in Italian and now there is a book named: “Una Gioia
Insolita”, by Luciano Squizzato, preface by
Walter Hooper, edition by Joca Books, 1995.
Jack read between 1910 and 1920 (when he was about 12 to
22 years old) many Latin classic writers.
According to Paul Ford's Companion to Narnia:
Since Lewis's first successes at Oxford were in the classics and ancient history, it is quite possible that he came across at least seven references to Narnia in Latin literature.
"Four references are found in Livy's History (10:10, 27:9,27:50, and 29:15)... ... Tacitus's Annals (3:9).... Pliny the Elder's comment in Natural History about its unusual weather (it became drier in the rainy season).... Pliny the Younger's letter to his mother-in-law, in which he mentions the excellence of the accommodations of her villa at Narnia, especially its beautiful baths. Of all of these references, Lewis mentions only Pliny the Younger, in a letter to Arthur Greeves (They Stand Together, Macmillan, Collins, 1979, p. 171)."
So the name Narnia that Lewis gave to the fantastic land in his books, was very well known by Jack, who knew an Italian town named Narnia that was on the Flaminia road and was also the last defense of Roma, for (from?) the peoples that came from the North.
This question gave more value to one of the most famous of Lewis's biographers, Walter Hooper, who said that they now have the map of Italy which Lewis studied, and that Lewis underscored some names in this atlas, and NARNIA was one of these names.
And more: Lewis also underscored the Flaminia road from Rome to the north.
Others Latin cities were: Ariminum, Perusia, Mevania, and Otriculum. This map came from the "Murrey's Small Classical Atlas" (1904).
You can see this in the picture.
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fgiusepp
Scribe
Alliance: Narnia
Last Visited: 31 May 2010
Joined: 06 Oct 2004
Posts: 162
Location: Narnia Italy
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Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2004 10:39 am |
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thanks for the very quick traslation
the last part in italian not traslate are :
“Ha letto più classici di qualunque altro ragazzo io abbia mai seguito...
e potrei aggiungere, di cui abbia mai sentito parlare”
"Lewis read more classic books of anyothers boy that I never teaching ..... and I can said also more, that any student that I have never listened "
thanks for the good work
Fgiuseppe
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Salean
Scribe
Alliance: The Written Word
Last Visited: 09 Dec 2005
Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Posts: 390
Location: England
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Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2004 11:38 am |
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"Lewis read more classic books of anyothers boy that I never teaching ..... and I can said also more, that any student that I have never listened "
"Lewis read more classic books than any other boy that I taught..... and I can also say that he listened more than any student I ever taught."
Just a quick go at it. I haven't got much time right now, I'm going out in about two seconds but I thought I'd just do this.
We got a talk and an RP forum!!!!!
Sal
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fgiusepp
Scribe
Alliance: Narnia
Last Visited: 31 May 2010
Joined: 06 Oct 2004
Posts: 162
Location: Narnia Italy
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Posted: Mon Nov 29, 2004 4:04 am |
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Dear Friends
this is the last version update.
If you like You can use it and put in the Stone table ...
**************************
“The Chronicles of Narnia”
Lewis has taken the name of Narni
after looking at an old Latin map
Of Italy.
***************************
by Giuseppe Fortunati
The premise is that the books “The Chronicles of Narnia”, started from the Fancy of C.S. Lewis, some parts curiously come from Italy and Italian culture.
Really, Lewis knew the Italian culture in much depth, and his studies as professor at Oxford and Cambridge allowed him to read and study the most famous classics of literature, and so Lewis know very well the old Latin poets like: Livy, Tacitus, Pliny the Elder and Pliny the Younger.
When Jack (as Lewis wanted to be called by his friends) was young,
and studied with his teacher Kirkpatrick, he loved the many classics, so that Kirkpatrick told Jack's father:
""Lewis read more classic books than any other boy that I taught..... "
Lewis knew Latin very well, so he could correctly read and write letters in the Latin language. An example was the correspondence in Latin with don Calabria (an Italian priest) which started in 1947 till don Calabria's death in about 1954.
This correspondence in Latin with don Calabria was translated
in Italian and now there is a book named: “Una Gioia
Insolita”, by Luciano Squizzato, preface by
Walter Hooper, edition by Joca Books, 1995.
Jack read between 1910 and 1920 (when he was about 12 to
22 years old) many Latin classic writers.
According to Paul Ford's Companion to Narnia:
Since Lewis's first successes at Oxford were in the classics and ancient history, it is quite possible that he came across at least seven references to Narnia in Latin literature.
"Four references are found in Livy's History (10:10, 27:9,27:50, and 29:15)... ... Tacitus's Annals (3:9).... Pliny the Elder's comment in Natural History about its unusual weather (it became drier in the rainy season).... Pliny the Younger's letter to his mother-in-law, in which he mentions the excellence of the accommodations of her villa at Narnia, especially its beautiful baths. Of all of these references, Lewis mentions only Pliny the Younger, in a letter to Arthur Greeves (They Stand Together, Macmillan, Collins, 1979, p. 171)."
So the name Narnia that Lewis gave to the fantastic land in his books, was very well known by Jack, who knew an Italian town named Narnia that was on the Flaminia road and was also the last defense of Roma.
This question gave more value to one of the most famous of Lewis's biographers, Walter Hooper, who said that they now have the map of Italy which Lewis studied, and that Lewis underscored some names in this atlas, and NARNIA was one of these names.
And more: Lewis also underscored the Flaminia road from Rome to the north.
Others Latin cities were: Ariminum, Perusia, Mevania, and Otriculum. This map came from the "Murrey's Small Classical Atlas" (1904).
You can see this in the picture.
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Ddraigwen
1
Alliance: The Magic
Last Visited: 01 Nov 2005
Joined: 18 Jul 2004
Posts: 343
Location: Texas
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Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2004 2:25 pm |
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Hmmm me thinks it still needs a little tweaking in places. Stay tuned on Monday for an updated version from me. Alas work becons this weekend
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Istarriel
At the Bird and the Baby
Alliance: The Magic
Last Visited: 18 Dec 2007
Joined: 20 Aug 2004
Posts: 1128
Location: Indiana, in the middle of a cornfield, most likely in my office
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Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2004 12:27 pm |
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Hmm, I gave it a whirl. See what ya'll think.
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
Although “The Chronicles of Narnia” proceeded from the fancies of C. S. Lewis, curiously some parts find their roots in Italy and Italian culture.
Lewis knew the history of Italian culture quite deeply. His position as a professor at Oxford and Cambridge gave him the opportunity to study classical literature and Latin poets such as Livy, Tacitus, Pliny the Younger and Pliny the Elder. When Lewis, or Jack as he was called as a child, was young his teacher, Kirkpatrick read many classic with the boy and later said that, “Lewis read more classic books than any other boy that I taught.”
Lewis became very proficient in Latin, carrying on a correspondence in that language with don Calabria, an Italian priest from 1947 until 1954. These letters were eventually translated by Luciano Squizzato and entitled “Una Gioia Insolita.”
From the ages of 12 to about 22, Lewis read many classic Latin writers. According to Paul Ford’s Companion to Narnia, Lewis’s first successes at Oxford were in the classics and ancient history, it is quite possible that he came across at least seven references to Narnia in Latin literature. "Four references are found in Livy's History (10:10, 27:9,27:50, and 29:15)... ... Tacitus's Annals (3:9).... Pliny the Elder's comment in Natural History about its unusual weather (it became drier in the rainy season).... Pliny the Younger's letter to his mother-in-law, in which he mentions the excellence of the accommodations of her villa at Narnia, especially its beautiful baths. Of all of these references, Lewis mentions only Pliny the Younger, in a letter to Arthur Greeves (They Stand Together, Macmillan, Collins, 1979, p. 171)."
The name, Narnia, that Lewis bestowed upon his land of talking beasts, speaking streams and Aslan the lion was most likely taken from his readings of classical writers who introduced the town of Narnia to him as the last defense of Roma on the Flaminia road. This idea was lent even more credence when one of Lewis’s biographers, Walter Hooper, discussed a map of Italy from “Murrey’s Small Classical Atlas” that had once belonged to Lewis. On the map Lewis had underlined several towns; one of them is Narnia.
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
Just thought I'd see what I could do. I took quite a few liberties with the text, but I think it still has the same meaning.
Riel
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fgiusepp
Scribe
Alliance: Narnia
Last Visited: 31 May 2010
Joined: 06 Oct 2004
Posts: 162
Location: Narnia Italy
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Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2004 8:51 am |
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I think that last version of traslation can be good
so if you like i give my permission to publish it on the main site
The Stonetable .
Giuseppe
**************************
“The Chronicles of Narnia”
Lewis has taken the name of Narnia
after looking at an old Latin map
Of Italy.
***************************
by Giuseppe Fortunati
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
Although “The Chronicles of Narnia” proceeded from the fancies of C. S. Lewis, curiously some parts find their roots in Italy and Italian culture.
Lewis knew the history of Italian culture quite deeply. His position as a professor at Oxford and Cambridge gave him the opportunity to study classical literature and Latin poets such as Livy, Tacitus, Pliny the Younger and Pliny the Elder. When Lewis, or Jack as he was called as a child, was young his teacher, Kirkpatrick read many classic with the boy and later said that, “Lewis read more classic books than any other boy that I taught.”
Lewis became very proficient in Latin, carrying on a correspondence in that language with don Calabria, an Italian priest from 1947 until 1954. These letters were eventually translated by Luciano Squizzato and entitled “Una Gioia Insolita.”
From the ages of 12 to about 22, Lewis read many classic Latin writers. According to Paul Ford’s Companion to Narnia, Lewis’s first successes at Oxford were in the classics and ancient history, it is quite possible that he came across at least seven references to Narnia in Latin literature. "Four references are found in Livy's History (10:10, 27:9,27:50, and 29:15)... ... Tacitus's Annals (3:9).... Pliny the Elder's comment in Natural History about its unusual weather (it became drier in the rainy season).... Pliny the Younger's letter to his mother-in-law, in which he mentions the excellence of the accommodations of her villa at Narnia, especially its beautiful baths. Of all of these references, Lewis mentions only Pliny the Younger, in a letter to Arthur Greeves (They Stand Together, Macmillan, Collins, 1979, p. 171)."
The name, Narnia, that Lewis bestowed upon his land of talking beasts, speaking streams and Aslan the lion was most likely taken from his readings of classical writers who introduced the town of Narnia to him as the last defense of Roma on the Flaminia road. This idea was lent even more credence when one of Lewis’s biographers, Walter Hooper, discussed a map of Italy from “Murrey’s Small Classical Atlas” that had once belonged to Lewis. On the map Lewis had underlined several towns; one of them is Narnia.
Narnia town are now named NARNI and is very close to Rome.
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
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fgiusepp
Scribe
Alliance: Narnia
Last Visited: 31 May 2010
Joined: 06 Oct 2004
Posts: 162
Location: Narnia Italy
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Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 4:04 am |
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lewis italian map
Dear friends
now I have also a copy of the map
I hope that you can see it
best wishes
Giuseppe
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fgiusepp
Scribe
Alliance: Narnia
Last Visited: 31 May 2010
Joined: 06 Oct 2004
Posts: 162
Location: Narnia Italy
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Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2004 12:56 am |
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Dear Friends
A more dettailled information about Lewis
come to me from a very important person
I speak about Douglas Gresham steple-son of Lewis
that said me about
"Lewis knew the history of Italian culture quite deeply. His position as a professor at Oxford and Cambridge"
(that we write togheter at the stone table)
******************************
are no correct because Lewis are not professor in Oxford and exactly:
No, try "a Fellow at Oxford and later a Professor at Cambridge". Jack was
never a Professor at Oxford, it was Cambridge who finally granted him that
honour.
so the correction are :
Lewis knew the history of Italian culture quite deeply. His position as a Fellow at Oxford and later a Professor at Cambridge
*******************************************
And more I see that some caratcter like ? are not correct in our work the correct ssimbol are ' ...................
exemple
Lewis?s
correct Lewis's
***************
May be that are only a my problem about the font..........
I hope have your answer
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Ddraigwen
1
Alliance: The Magic
Last Visited: 01 Nov 2005
Joined: 18 Jul 2004
Posts: 343
Location: Texas
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Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2004 4:14 pm |
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sometimes it does that when I c+p the article from the web page to the new page, I usually catch it but not always
You say Douglas Gresham emailed you?
If you are reading Mr Gresham, I apologise for missing the error in fact.
Sometimes I have a habit of worrying about the translation and forgetting which facts I have double checked.
If there is any other mistakes that you have noticed but that I have missed please feel free to email it to me at ddraigwen@thestonetable.com and I will immediatly put it right.
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fgiusepp
Scribe
Alliance: Narnia
Last Visited: 31 May 2010
Joined: 06 Oct 2004
Posts: 162
Location: Narnia Italy
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Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 12:17 am |
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Some more news about Narnia in Italy and Douglas
I must said thanks to Douglas Gresham for this nice e-mail to Narnia.it
http://www.narnia.it/douglas.htm
Thank you for sending me the web address of your site, It looks very nice
indeed.
Thank you also for all the hard work you have done to help interest the
children in Narnia.
Please tell the school teachers and the children that I am very impressed
with their Narnia work, and that I hope they all had a great time.
Also please let everybody know that I am already working on the second
Narnia film, "Prince Caspian".
Blessings,
Douglas.
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